Labor Day weekend
the faded Hula-Hoop
in the weeds


gK 2002-3

About the author: gK is a member of the Southern California Haiku Study Group. Besides writing haiku, senryu, and tanka, gK also writes science fiction haiku (also known as scifaiku), and is a moderator for the scifaiku mailing list at Yahoo! Groups.

Responses to the haiku for 28 August 2003 by gK

    bob richardson (orgb at webtv dot net)
    2003-09-09 07:13:08

    i am not sure you meant the perception to flow along these lines, but i perceive the present, the past(of times long gone), with a hint of melancholy, and these are my thoughts:

    "labor day weekend"

    isn't it more than the usual weekend, for it's composed of 3 days; seemingly we get an extra day in watching summer, having slipped away, or could one think of the labor day weekend in one's life, when one's life is in the final phase.

    "the faded Hula-Hoop"

    ah yes, looking back to times of yore, to that which we no longer have a use for, and how casually it was tossed away.
    (i took the time to think of "the", as for it being needed)
    i feel your haiku would read just as nicely without, though you know which "hoop" the reader doesn't, but i am not suggesting "a"


    bob richardson (orgbob at webtv dot net)
    2003-09-09 07:14:58

    seemingly, "never" at a loss for words, for the thoughts are constantly there...

    "in the weeds"

    are we to assume an overgrowth of one's yard, further strengthening my melancholy aspect, one being despondent on the passage of time, refusing to move forward, while fruitlessly looking backwards

    strange how certain things bring about thoughts.

    my case in point, for instance, a gospel verse registered in my mind; "peace be still"

    gk, tactfully done, overlooking "the"

    i am reminded of:

    "this autumn
    why am i aging so
    flying towards the clouds, a bird"


    labor day weekend
    faded hula-hoop
    in the weeds

    2003-09-11 04:29:13


    Your rewrite, removing the article in line two, is clearly a "Tontoism", and make the haiku read awkwardly both on the page and aloud.


    bob richardson (orgbob at webtv dot net)
    2003-09-11 07:25:08

    gk, in reading the piece in it's original form, it sounds as though "labor day" weekend is the hula-hoop.

    in any form of writing, if one is using a particular language, understand the syntax of that language.
    gk, or "simply" use some form of punctuation to express a change in topic.

    gk, if the rules (expressly expressed) the usage of (articles) a certain way, be bold and at times do things differently, if it suits your purpose.

    i read the remake aloud and without moving my lips, i failed to sense the "awkwardly" you indicated, however i did sense a clear cut between the two first lines, as oppose to my thinking what i have indicated in reading it as you first proposed.

    there's more...

    bob richardson (orgbob at webtv dot net)
    2003-09-11 07:31:14

    here is the "more"...

    gk, that is why things do not readily translate from one language to another, and in one's effort to follow what the rules are for the original language, it doesn't set well with the new language; so, i think of this as the NEW HORIZON.

    and more is coming...

    bob richardson (orgbob at webtv dot net)
    2003-09-11 07:32:38


    on tontoism, have you read these or understand what is really being said about tontoism, "Tontoism in American Haiku" (1975) and again in "The Question of Articles in Haiku" (1989) the author urges, with gentle humor, the natural use of articles in haiku so that they do not create a distraction or sound a false note either by their presence or their absence. In "Engagement and Detachment in Haiku and Senryu" (1993) he suggests that one reason the two forms "feel" so different may be a consequence of psychic stance, stating "the movement of a haiku is toward engagement, that of a senryu toward detachment." In "The Question of Words in Haiku" (1993) attention is drawn to the way in which certain words ("old" and "silence" are offered as examples) have become overtaxed because they represent a shortcut to resonance

    Todd Claus
    2003-09-11 11:36:55

    good grief!
    missing the comix
    a puppy messes the floor

    bob richardson (orgbob at webtv dot net)
    2003-09-11 13:46:40

    here i was thinking, charles brown was on the scene.

    bob richardson (orgbob at webtv dot net)
    2003-09-11 13:55:06

    i am always intrigued by limitations, and yet...
    un-met expectations

    hit dog-
    the squeaky wheel
    a howl

    2003-09-15 00:49:42

    river traffic
    hula hooping kids play at dusk

    Anyone want to renga?

    2003-09-17 06:40:15

    Yes, bob, I am very familiar with the ideas of Paul O. Williams. The fact that "Tontoisms" have been mentioned within the last couple of months on two haiku lists I'm belong to shows the lasting impact on English-language haiku of his short essay on Tontoism and the longer on on "Articles in Haiku".

    That and the other essays cited are all in his interesting book, "The Nick of Time: Essays on Haiku Aesthetics", Press Here, 2001, ISBN 1-878798-23-5. I recommend the book, not only for those essays, but also "A Dialog on Baloney Haiku" (1992), "The Question of Metaphor in Haiku" (1993), and "A Pre-Electronic View of the World" (1996), among the other essays and haiku in the book. Many of Paul's essays reflect a natural concern with language that would go with being a (now retired) English professor. The book should probably be in any large haiku book collection.


    2003-09-17 07:03:36

    to bob:

    If you are going to cut and paste information from the internet, you should include citations for your sources. Most of your last large post (beginning with "now... on tontoism"), is from John Stevenson nice review in Modern Haiku (also on their website) of Paul O. William's book "The Nick of Time: Essays on Haiku Aesthetics" from Press Here that was copied verbatim. You didn't even change things enough from one of the middle paragraphs that you copied so that the casual visitor to the website would know who was the "the author" of the essays mentioned. Here is the link to the webpage where the words were copied from.

    FYI: The webpage has a copyright notice at the bottom. Did you miss that?

    2002 Modern Haiku
    Modern Haiku, PO Box 68, Lincoln, IL 62656


    bob richardson (orgbob at wetv dot net)
    2003-09-17 13:06:32

    really, gk, 9/11 to 9/17, i thought you had forgotten me.

    need i say, in agreement with you, concerning the original author of any piece, and/or repetition, in all fairness, identification should take on a state of formality.

    however, yes, gk, just for you, i am ASSUMING you saw the quotation marks, and my sentence structuring. i am concerned you would imagine i was laying claim or trying to lay claim to any and all i included within those markings; that is why in the scheme of things, sentence structuring is very important.

    just for you, gk, if you read my claiming, being the creator, what MORE MIGHT i say.

    big post coming...

    bob richardson (orgbob at webtv dot net)
    2003-09-17 13:13:39

    tip of the iceberg...

    hmmm, admittedly, you, gk, have misinterpreted my words before, those meant for you, and those meant for others, figure that.
    gk, the reason i didn't change anything in those "large post" (psst, your words), i attributed to others, through my casual usage of quotation marks, the reason being (THEY WERE NOT TO BE CONSIDERED AS MY WORDS) nor was i writing a term paper, thesis, composition, essay or dissertation.

    so, gk, i ask you, why would i take the time to change any of the wordage, especially in the informal setting we are addressing each other and others...

    gk, if you take the time and review, tired of saying (reread), any of my seemingly "large post", i attribute the aforemention phrase to gk, you will see, any time i use the words of others, i tend to simply enclose them in quotation marks

    are we there yet...< not my words

    bob richardson (orgbob at webtv dot net)
    2003-09-17 13:16:12

    just for you, gk, in the future since you have made mention of your confused state, i will clarify; true, i have been lacking, and there is more i can do, to help you understand, with some enlightenment.

    however, again for you and a few others, gk, if the understanding of my placing the quotation marks, and my not including the statement, "these are another's word", or my saying these are contributed by so-and-so, i will try to do better.

    gk, some words of information, just for you, due to the nature of much that has been written, especially on the haiku, if you HAD read closer, you would have seen, in the many pieces written by others, there is this STRANGE similarity; verbatim.
    gk, in those pieces written by others, you know what, those pieces are written as though they are the original author.


    bob richardson (orgbob at webtv dot net)
    2003-09-17 13:22:03

    we are here for now...

    i realize, now, why you conceived the idea those words were from john stevenson, let me assure you, they (were not), still to make sure you, gk, have no misunderstanding at this point, i am still not claiming them as being my own, i gave tribute to whomever by the mysterious quotation marks.

    in fairness to john, i do not know who wrote them first, albeit they were written by another, also.

    oh yeah, gk, but not written by me, originally.

    now, with my }apology{* out of the way, gk, i still await your definition of tontoism, in words understandable by me and those less fortunate.

    fyi: gk review my words in the sentences above, as to why a copyright notice wasn't included. if you have troubles identifying those areaa, please, inform me and i will highlight them

    albeit gk, nice try

    curious gk, would you consider this to be a "large post"...

    * see the colloq. meaning of apology, and gk, the definition you see, are my words.

    john tiong chunghoo
    2003-12-29 04:41:39

    day after fair
    a michael jackson poster
    forlorn in the wind

    bob richardson (orgbob at webtv dot net)
    2004-07-17 19:27:25

    "days after
    fourth of july --
    stars exceptionally bright, tonight"

    by bob